Mishlei 25:27 - Mussar for Winnie-the-Pooh (Part 3)

Mishlei 25:27 - Mussar for Winnie-the-Pooh (Part 3)

אָכֹל דְּבַשׁ הַרְבּוֹת לֹא טוֹב, וְחֵקֶר כְּבֹדָם כָּבוֹד:

Length: 46 minutes
Synopsis: This morning (6/3/26), in our Morning Mishlei shiur, we continued last week's pasuk where we left off: mid-Meiri. We learned through his first derech nistar approach in-depth, which was fantastic, then read through his second one and set it aside because it more-or-less follows the Rambam we plan to do tomorrow, and then we learned through his treatment of the "sugya" of honey in Mishlei - a masterful analysis of the three seemingly contradictory pesukim about honey in chapters 24-25. This, too, was very much in line with the Rambam's approach, which makes me even more excited to take it up tomorrow! (בג"ה)
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מקורות:
משלי כה:כז
מאירי
רמב"ם - משנה תורה: ספר המדע, הלכות דעות פרק ג
ירושלמי קידושין ד:יב
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The Torah content for this month has been sponsored by Meir Areman, l'zeicher nishmas Zelda bas Ziesel, his grandmother, whose yahrzeit is on the 21st of Sivan.

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Transcript

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Okay, so this is day three of Mishlay 2527. Uh, we're not going to review everything because I'm assuming that anyone who is listening to part three has listened to part one and two. So the Pusuk is uh we'll just do the translation. A kol Divash Harbos Lotov Vheker Kubodam Kavod. Um uh eating too much honey is not good, and the investigation of their glory is glory. So we ended off last time doing the Mi'iri, okay. And I mentioned that I wanted to do the Ramam and the Mora on this. Um, but the question is what order do we want to do it in? So we have our usual 45 minutes today and then um and then we have 30 minutes tomorrow. Uh and um I was gonna just say we should start with the Mora today. Uh, I I did see though that the Miri has a discourse, okay. Uh, you know, I thought he was just gonna give us a Derech Nister like usual, but he goes into the Derech Nister, and then he has a whole thing where he says, Vlibo o dikduk, shamatasi shlosha pa'amim hiskirachilasa devash, and then he gives a a discourse on the three times that it talks about honey, which lasts for two miri columns. Okay, so the question is what are we more in the mood to do today when we have more time? Uh more nevuchim or mi'iri? I'll take your your vote. Mi'iri? Okay, we got one from Miri. Yeah, I was taking okay. I heard Moshe say Mi'iri. Oh sorry, Moshe Levin say Mi'iri and Moshe Roosendville say Rambom. I didn't hear what I said. David's Miri, okay. I voted Rambom. Okay. I think I think we have a lot more opportunities to learn more Nabuchim, you know, from other rabbis. I mean everything. Okay, okay, I see how it is. All right. All right. So we'll do the Miri today. All right. Um uh yeah, okay, yeah, because you know, all all the rabbis who teach the Rambam on Nishle are just interchangeable. I get it. Uh uh Okay. Um so I'm actually gonna, I don't know if we finish the Derek Nigab Nigla, but I'm just gonna go straight to the Derek Nister. Um, okay, so he says like this lomar, or sorry, yeah farish alemus on midos. Okay, so that's not the ex the direction I expected him to go. I expected him to go with um with the honey is uh is is chmah, you know. That's what we that's the way the Ram is gonna go. Um so he says it's perfection of Midos. But Amru, and they say, Acholdvash harbos loto. Oh no, sorry, different way. Sorry. So eating honey is an uh an analogy, an allegory for uh metaphor for seeking enjoyment. Okay, which is pretty good. I mean, that's what honey is, right? Um uh intov laharboslo. It's not good to have too much. So kvodam is said in the plural, their kavod, on what is the nimshal of the mahatanugim. Okay, so dvash is is singular in the word honey, but since it's a stand-in for enjoyments, then it's uh it's plural. It's funny, funny move there, right? Because he's saying that that the grammar follows the nimshal, not the mushal. So I've never seen that before. So investigating their covod, the covod of enjoyments, meaning to say, um, investigating what, like from what aspect is proper to make use of them, who covod the MS. That's real covod. Shbachakiraso, yizahir shallo yi kachmihem rak viatsorak, because through that khakira, then a person will be uh careful to not take more than he needs. He just throws in Khachma. All right, let's get it, let's get this uh this interpretation first. Okay, hold on. I'm just gonna take notes on this here. So we got Miri uh Derech Nister uh sorry, not say sorry, Derek Nister number one, okay, which is that uh honey equals enjoyments and uh investigation of uh the cover uh of the enjoyments uh the the the uh covered of enjoyments is covered, right? Um means that uh it's a good thing uh to investigate for them to see how much is actually necessary. Yeah, Isaac. So I guess the move he's making is he's taking Holdabosh as like an example, uh like a um I forgot what the term is for this, but it's like an example of the broader category of uh of time. Right. I always swear if that's uh uh synectic or or metonymy or metal. Yeah, I mean immediate. Yeah, yeah, right, yeah, right. Yeah, that's true. And then yeah, and then that that sets the stage for all the other quarrels. Right, right. Okay, good. Uh yeah, Moshe. Yeah, in one sense of you're understanding this to mean covod. Yeah, I know. So so the the two questions I have here are number one, uh what in in in what sense is this covod? Okay. Uh and you know, it's funny because when he said before that this is about Schlemus on Midos, I don't know if we're also supposed to understand covod in that sense. Like there is a certain covod, like not honor, but there's a certain um like um greatness, you know, that that comes from having good Midos. And this would be one of those areas. So that's one question. Another question I have here is um I'm really intrigued by like, in what sense are the two halves opposites? Okay, because you would think that the opposite, and this maybe is a clue, you would think that it is eating a lot of honey and eating a little bit of honey. But no, it's eating a lot of honey versus investigating honey to know how much you should eat, right? So I think there's something there. And then a third question is um, what's the hava amina? Uh right. Uh, you know, like the the the the first half seems obvious, okay. So I'm gonna go ahead and say presumably the uh the kiddish uh is in the second half, all right. Um, but but what is it? Yeah. Okay. Um yeah. I have an approach, but uh curious what your thoughts are. Like a new like rationality in terms of like investigating or much more sort of like you're saying like that's giving it combo because you're using it you're applying like a like a more um rationalistic and like transma-based approach to the thing. So like I mean, I think that's what that's what like you could say sort of give things give things commod in a certain way. Okay, like yeah, okay, good. So you know what? I'm gonna actually frame this in terms of the Rambam here, um, which is not the Ram in the Mornavukum that we're not learning, because we can learn that from anyone. Uh but um uh what was I gonna say? Uh this is the Ramam in Deus um three. Okay, so most of Deus three, the first part of Deus um three is about uh what do you call it? Is about asceticism, anti-asceticism, which I wrote about for uh last week's article. But then he says, a person needs to direct all of his actions, all of them, to know uh as a means to know Hashem uh alone. And everything, his sitting, his standing, his speech, and everything needs to be uh for that um for that matter. Okay, so he gives a bunch of examples, uh, but I want to see the example actually. I'll just read uh Ketzad, how so? Keshi sa vitain uh sakar when he uh engages in uh you know um business deals or does work to get payment. Lo ye believe maman babat. He shouldn't just have the intention to get money, to accumulate money alone. Alyase Dvaramsa Dvarim Shaguf Sarkland, Shasya Vish Venisias Isha. Um uh he should have in mind, he should do these things in order to uh acquire his bodily needs in eating, drinking, and you know, getting a house and marrying uh a woman so that he can um what do you call it? So that he can uh um uh uh sorry, he doesn't say okay, you know in order to do this thing. Okay, vivo, lo yasim alibu las dwaram halal kede lehanos biva. That's this is the our our point here. When he does these pleasurable activities, eating and drinking and sex, you shouldn't have in mind to do these things just to get pleasure. It's not like you renounce pleasure, but you don't do it just for the pleasure. To the point where you're only eating and drinking what is sweet to the palate, vivo kude lehanos, and then having bia in order to get uh pleasure. You should eat and drink for health. Therefore, he should not eat whatever his palate desires, like a dog and a donkey. So you should eat things that are beneficial, whether they're bitter or sweet, and you shouldn't eat things that are harmful for the body, um, uh even though they're sweet to the palate. Okay, so then he goes on. Uh oh, look at that. Keta, there you go. All right, fine. So he goes on. Uh and uh he says, the point I want to get to is that the end, okay, you should read the whole parak, but then he says at the end, Nimsa Hamahalk Zokoyama Kulan, uh consequently one who follows this path all of his days, obey he's always serving Hashem. So um uh even when he's uh doing business, even when he's uh doing Bia, uh, because his thought in all of them is to attain his needs so that his body can be in intact to serve Hashem. And then I'll just read the last part. So Filo Pasashi Yashin, Shuyashin, even when he's asleep, uh das kadesh nuak da toolav, if he's sleeping, uh in uh it's funny, ladaas. I assume that means for the intention of uh with the intention that he will rest his mind, um, which is what every yeshiva guy says that they're doing when they sleep in, okay, right? Uh um via nukkua and his body will rest, kadesh lo yekala, so he doesn't become sick. And um, he's not able to serve Hashem when he's sick. Nimse shena shalom ago lamakamhu. Um consequently, uh that sleep will be service to God. I need a little bit more of that. I am in a bad insomnia slump. I got less than four hours last night, very bad. Uh regarding this, the chamim commanded saying, Let all your actions be for the sake of heaven. That's what Shlomo says in Mishlay 3.6. You know, all your ways know him and he will straighten your paths. So this is actually a little bit more than what Isaiah was saying. So I want to combine this. Um, so Isaiah's uh and Rambaum's answer to the first question. Okay. Actually, let's do uh let's let's step in there. So Isaiah's answer is you are are not letting your your taiva dictate your relationship to an engagement in pleasure, uh, but you are um uh engaging pleasure with your mind and subsuming it, subsuming it under a rational framework. Okay, and then the rational framework is what pushed me here, is Ronam's answer to question one is that um uh uh and Miri doesn't say this, but when he says kfiat Sorek, the overall framework of tsorch is tsorech for your the needs of your nephesh, right? So you are calculating how much pleasure you psychologically need uh in order to live a life of intellect and serve a shen. Yeah, Isaac? I have an answer for question three. Yeah. Um also question two. Um so I think the um I think the the I think in a way question two answers question three, which is that the the point that Post I is making is about is about the disparity between these two things. So a person who's in the Havamina. I lost your audio just now. Still can't hear you. Still can't hear you. Alright, we'll come back to you. Um Moshe. Um can you so can you hear me? Now I can hear you, now I can hear you. Oh yeah, I just turned off my wifi because it's cutting in and out. Um Yeah, so the disparity, that's all I got. Yeah, so a person who's in the Hava Mina Um is who's like caught up in the pursuit of pleasure, would think thinks that the uh the opposite, like the good path would you know, would be um, or at least like the you know, the ideal path maybe would be um like completely removing from from pleasure, like you know, like monks, you know, like you know I think that like people have a certain like thing like they think that like, oh that's like uh the you know what like the good the good uh way to engage with that. But really the the good way is actually um which is like what Isaiah was saying, um and then you're still getting to enjoy them, and you're getting um and you're even getting getting um um you know it it but you just have a healthy relationship to them as opposed to withdrawing from them entirely, right? Is to have a healthy relationship to them uh instead of withdrawing entirely. And I want to add something to this, um, which is that um uh for I think for two reasons, okay. And again, I wrote I just wrote about this fresh uh uh last week, which is a you do need a certain or you know, most people, I should say, not not everyone, most people do need a a certain amount of psychological pleasure. And if they don't get that, then they'll the their intellect will suffer. Okay. Um and then secondly, uh, this is more of like the point of the Ushami that anyone who has the opportunity to uh uh what did I say? Hold on, I just want to quote it from the actual Yushami. Um oh, this was my okay. If you can see the um the uh I I'm I'm very proud of this art here, right? So you have the uh indulgence on the left, uh the people just eating and drinking and partying, and then you have the ascetics on the right, you have the middle path, and then the nazir, according to the uh the Rambam and the Ramban, is one step towards asceticism uh in between actual moderation and um uh and and actual asceticism, which according to the Ramam is bad, and according to the Ramban is good for reasons I explained in the article. Um Moshe, are you wanted to comment on that? Or that yeah, just one typical thing. Is there a reason no one's by the middle path because like no one's actually there? Um there's not a reason, but uh I thought it would be distracting to like I wanted to emphasize that he is deviating, the nazir is deviating from the middle path. So the emphasis is that he's not partaking of the middle path, he's going to one side towards asceticism. And I think that'd be confusing artistically if there was someone else there. Um okay. Um, yeah, so uh the Yuroshami that Rabbi Moskowitz always quotes in Kadushion 412, Rukhliska in the name of Rabbi Koin in the name of Rav. Uh, I'm gonna read this in the Hebrew because it's better. Hold on. Um litin din vakeshmon alkohol mash ra eno velo uhl rainovalo. In the in the future, a person is gonna have to uh you know take uh there's gonna be a reckoning, in other words, you're gonna get you know held to account by God for anything that your eyes saw and you did not partake of. Okay, like any pleasure, right? Uh that you didn't literally that you didn't uh yeah, that you your eyes saw and didn't eat. So the Korban Haeda says why shakata al uh that's a typo which I sent in the correction forward, didn't get correct yet. Al Naf show shesagvachinam. So he's sinning against his soul um for not um uh um for afflicting it uh needlessly, you know. Um, or I heard an argument um from rabbi, I forgot the first name Dwek, uh, but the the uh rabbi associated with the Khaburah, that he was saying how like if you are refraining from engaging in a pleasure that God created, there's something wrong with you. Like, like it's a you know, again, if you're not if you're if it's if it's mutter and it's not harmful and you're still not engaging in it, then there's something wrong with you. Like you're you're somehow you're missing out on on the the tove that Hashem created, and uh you know, and there there must be some other like you know force there, right? Uh some other like distortion there. So in other words, you're uh you know, it's it's it's a a good that that Hashem created, okay, as implied by, you know, and and missing out on it is bad, as implied by Kiddushin, uh Yoshama Kidushin for uh 412. Yeah. Okay, good. Um yeah, Moshe, did you have something else? Uh I I saw your hand up earlier, but uh I was controller points for me. Okay, good. Yeah, um, David. One other thing in connection with this, I don't think it's exactly the mirror's idea, but I think it is related. Yeah. Um in the argument of like same more uh karate types of like don't have smartphones at all or don't have anything like that, and that type of approach of this thing is tempting, and so I don't give myself the ability to partake or to interact with it versus like this thing that has positive drawbacks, and like teaching oneself how to interact with it in a healthy way. I think that that's like two totally different ways of approaching it. I do also think that related to Pasuk, the um the Kavot, the the figure with um Kavod in like a very large, like broad sense, I think that does what I'm saying of like the learning how to interact with things that have excuse me, have uh benefits and positives to them, sorry, benefits and drawbacks, that that is like an overall sweeping thing. Then any small thing that you can learn how to engage with it in a proper way that does help you like overall how to interact with things that have these two different sides of the sword. And you're saying that that's the sorry, I'm uh I forgot which question you're answering there. That that is explaining that's answering what? I I just missed the address of this. Uh um, I don't know if that was particularly an answer. It's something that Isaac's point was making me think of, uh, just insofar as like the overall how this person gets connected by it. Yeah, so I'm gonna combine your answer with mine because I think they're similar, which is that uh is that uh you know, I think there there is a Havamina. There is a Havamina, you know, either I guess that that any not not that pleasure is bad. I I think that is one possible Havamina that that Isaac uh correctly identified, and as you see from Raman, but that any uh energy given to thinking about pleasure is somehow dangerous and will draw you in uh or put you at risk for for you know for hedonism. Okay. So the the the answer is that this danger is correct, is true, right, is real, but the solution is not to avoid it entirely, but to learn how to to um to you know exercise moderation, okay? Um, not only for the reasons mentioned uh uh above, but also because you're not perfecting yourself uh simply by avoiding temptation, you know. Uh and look, when it comes to certain areas like iser, we don't say that you should like put yourself in situations of temptation, because that's ISER. We're not talking about ISUR here. We're talking about like developing an actual perfection of being able to live in the world, you know. Uh, you know, you need to live in the world um and uh not avoid it. Okay. So uh D, I don't think I'm putting words in your mouth here. I think this is a uh similar uh thing to what you're saying or or in line with what you're saying. Is that am I missing something? No, I think so. I think it's a different aspect that I wasn't particularly hitting on, but I think it does very much relate to it. Okay. So that's why the opposite is is the you know, it's similar to move to what Isaac says. The the opposite is the correct opposite, which is Keker Kovodan, you know. And look, I think that there are um You know, like if you just look at uh, you know, I think there are people in Arieshiva who are very good at this. Like, like, you know, you look at the way we do Yomto, right? Like, you know, just uh I remember uh talking, you know, I was I was at the at the fish mines uh for Yom Tov and like you know, we uh you know it was it was the beginning of Khatzi uh uh Lachem. You know, Ari was barbecuing steaks on the grill, you know, and smoking a cigar, and then we davined mincha and then went in and then had steaks and wine and and uh and and uh good yom tofu food. And I remember talking to people, you know, because I only have been around yeshiva pretty much for yomtovim here, someone told me that like people don't barbecue on Yom Tov, that that's like like not a thing that a lot of people do. Um, and like that isn't that the whole point of the Heter uh uh Okhal Nefesh, like you can cook on Yom Tov and like have really good food. And but I can picture someone like looking at that scene of like eating steaks and wine and smoking a cigar on Yom Tov and being like, what are you guys like hedonists? Like, no, we're enjoying life. That's Khati Lash, Chati Lakhem after the ha after the chati lashem, you know? So that that that's uh you know, I was just thinking about that uh recently about this. Okay, let's go on. Uh that was uh that was a good miri. Okay, next the ethars binion hash kasa. Okay, this is like a radical interpretation. Kov could mean destruction. Which I think means you sweep the house. I'm not sure what that reference is. Uhdi ka arbe. Um, which I'm just gonna look this up in m'nachum. Yeah, Isaac. Um, I think sweeping the house. I think it's at um literally to like level the house. Leveling the house, okay. Yeah, because the ground, uh, there's dirt floor. So leveling. Uh yeah. Um, where is Nachum? Nachum is very small. It's right here. Two, no, three fifteen, which our scroll translates it as there fire will consume you, a sword will cut you down, it will consume you like a chewing locust. You'll be swept away. There you go, as by a chewing locust. Um you'll be swept as by the abundant locusts. Okay, so uh to sweep away. So he's saying it's lush and tama, but also in in in the the navi. I guess uh you know, swept away from every klikamda. The removal of every klikamda pnuim hasamus uh harisa brov ha his chakhmus pachmos. Ah, oh that's very interesting. Okay, so this might um uh uh fit into what we do in the Rambam, assuming we get there, uh, is um breaking through uh Harisa means like like not just breaking through, it means like crossing the boundaries, like breaking through where you're not supposed to go through uh an excessive philosophizing in Chakmus. He's Chakmus in the Mi'iri's language is like like going into uh e uh like speculative philosophy, you know. Um Al Zeamar, a khodvash harboz lotov, chaker kburum kavod, okay, which he's translating as the chaker, oh let's see, laman karoi. So you're gonna destroy that which you already learned properly. If you in other words, if you go, if you eat too much honey, if you go beyond the the proper bounds of in in in doing chachma, uh then you're gonna you're gonna destroy what you've already learned. Kirovha ischachmus bakakir bameshlayusag. Yeah, this is exactly like the Ramam. Um, too much hischachmus and investigation in what you cannot attain, what you cannot grasp, evelis is foolishness. Umadrega umavo gatalish. And it's a huge uh gateway to confusion, to perplexity. Okay, fine. All right, so that I'm not I don't want to dwell on this because that's what the Ram was going to talk about here, but it's just a creative reading of Kavodan. Okay, here we now we go to the discourse. Okay, uh, we were not gonna get through all this. Valibo od dictok. I got another small point, okay, which is three columns worth. Uh Harishona, uh, sorry, bah who shatsati shloshabam his kirahilsu dbash. I found three times it talks about honey. Harishona lomika brova achilas. So claw the first one does not rebuke uh uh about uh excessive eating at all, about mitsuba or mitzave, bahasmadasa. It commands us in in constant eating. That was in 2413. Uh, eat honey, my son, for it is good, and the drippings of the honeycomb are sweet on your palate. Rotalumur, Shehishios Alchikotani. He's telling you that you should be on your palate constantly. Uh, similarly, he mentions vikitov umatok. So it's good and it's sweet. Remember, honey is medicinal and it's uh tasty. He mentions it in a lush of sivuy achi yure, uh, but sibui shim ain'lo she chazar akaraha. So it's not just that if you find it, you should eat it, it's that you should seek it out. Bakhain ship sivuyav haya bakriya leva uh leben der chiva. He's also calling his son endearingly. He's like trying to like like you know, gently get him to eat honey. Bakhain Shiid Ba Chochmah, Shakivin Laham Shilba Achris Vatikpa. Uh he also promises in Chachmah uh that he intended to liken Lahamshil Ba Akris Fatikba. To liken it to a good end. I think I know what he means. But Amroki uh Dee Chochma Lanafshaha, Imatsasa Vyesh Akris. Uh over there he also says, uh so too, meaning in the in the Nimshaw, you should know Chakma for your soul. Uh that's in one of the Shabbos miras. De echmala nafra. Yeah. Umatzasa uh vieshakris. If you find it, and there will be a good outcome. I think Akris here is a good outcome. Really verbose here. So look at how many ways he's encouraging us on to eat honey. Number one, he doesn't rebuke him about eating too much. Uh, second is that he commands you to do it a lot, uh, constantly. Then he's praising the honey as good and sweet. Then he commands him to eat it. If he doesn't find he should go, he should search for it. He's calling to do it, my son, uh being. And Shishis, Shidbamesh, particularly, he's saying that it has a good outcome. Okay. I I'm really wanting to know where he goes with this, right? Because this definitely clashes with what we have. Vishniya, the second case, Micha Burovachilaso, he rebukes, uh, he warns against the uh uh excessive eating. He doesn't um mention the eating of it in a lush of like encouragement or of tsiboy, shiore, shim lo tizdaminlo shihazer achara, implying that if he uh that if he doesn't happen upon it, that he should go after it. He says, if you find it, then you should eat the right amount. He also says, Don't fill up on it. And then he he promises the punishment of vomiting and losing out on what is fit to retain from it. Says in uh in our parak above, uh, if you found honey, eat what is enough for you. Not that he's commanding you to go after it. If you find uh uh what is enough for you, then then uh if you find it, then eat what is enough for you. Not that you should become satisfied, uh fed up with it and vomited. Um so I think he's saying like he's he's like emphasizing the the minimal amount, not mentioning any lush of sivoy on eating it, and also saying you should refrain from doing too much. Okay, he's setting us up. I'm really excited. What is he gonna say? Uh hu etli masha. Oh, he wasn't done with that. Yeah. Hu etli masha yadata amru shi ras. Did I skip something? I don't think I skipped something. Loto. Okay, right. I just want to make sure that I didn't page number. Sorry about this. Oh, too much. Yeah, okay. Oh wait. No, okay. Top Shin Lemon Hey, Toption Okay. I don't know. It feels like I skipped something, but I guess I didn't. Um okay, so then he says, Buhu et Slimashi data uh uh Amramzal Kolshiers Khatokodums, Chachmas is Kayames. Okay, so this is all for the the uh the statement of Khazal of anyone whose fear of sin precedes his chachma, his chachma will last. Over Ishona, he's here, Alimu Darkeha Torah, valechos benesivosah derh kabbalah. In the first one, where he's all out encouraging, he's saying that's that's about training yourself in the ways of Torah and clinging to his paths by way of authority, of tradition. Until its emuna becomes entrenched in you, um uh and his moon becomes entrenched, and uh and he's entrenched in its mitzvos, uh the the you know rational mitzvos and the mitzvos that uh you just have to obey even if you don't understand. Uh Pino Seha, Hainios Fautorios, and also the foundations that are knowable through uh philosophy and the ones that are only knowable through Torah. The Shiasko Bazab Bizman Hayadus. And you should do this when you're young. Shiikak Gedula Oh, sorry, ghidulo ima vi gamel bakelbah. You should basically be raised by it and weaned uh uh in its milk, from his milk. And as much as possible, the father should command his son about this. And also to cultivate a natural desire and a uh uh a will, uh of volition based on choice. And that's why he encourages him and he's he's promising the reward. In other words, the father shouldn't force his kid to do this, he should try to encourage the kid to do it of his own volition so that he develops his own attachment to it uh with internal motivation. And he does that through encouragement, which is the way he used authority, and also by talking about the actual rewards. And he also mentions the the praises of the Kachmah itself. Um layus. And he says there's no harm or weariness in it. Hu nimna gamke miha's hero, the harbour's me'ahiilasa. And that's also why he doesn't say you can eat too much. And because there is this necessary benefit and there's no way to persist in Chachmo without it, that's why he commands you to do it all the time. Okay, so that's stage one of development is all in, encouragement, constant, you know, getting your son to be involved in it so that it's entrenched in him. Okay, but what changes? Vishniya Ramaslo Al Shara Chachmos. In the second one, he's warning you about other chamos. What's a little more halimudios fativios. These are limudios, which in ancient uh in the medieval system is uh preparatory chachmos. So things that train your mind, like math, logic, and then back then astronomy uh and harmony. Um and they remember they viewed astronomy not as a branch of science, but as a branch of math. And same thing, music was not a branch of art, it was a branch of math. So all of these things are designed to prepare your mind, to train your mind, and for us also Gemara, to train your mind in order to be able to investigate um the actual uh existences. And then that's TVO is uh is the sciences, what we would call the sciences. Okay. Umata, so he's not even talking about metaphysics. Uqvar yadata ki kolmashi yatza lo mehem, mi pokinas hamatsius, a chiderh bo yaleos, uh mo uh kvar nodo lo derh kabbala the Torah. Okay, so you know, you already know that everything that comes from these areas in that uh you know, from existence itself, um, I think he means physical existence, I think, until you can ascend from there to metaphysics, that you can already know by way of Kabbalah in the Torah. Im Mituso isbarach, um, or maybe mitzius is God's existence. Im mitsius isbarach, whether you're talking about God's existence, im akduso, or his oneness, the heter, ha gashmus, and his incorporeality, in kol shar habakashos, ha yunios, or any of the other uh philosophical uh quests. And therefore, there's no necessity to learn them by way of a muna. In other words, you do start off with a muna in them, but um, but you don't need the um uh in hech reach balimudan mitzadh muna. I feel like he's making the opposite point. What I what I thought he was saying is that you start off with those. I'm not sure, I'm not sure what he's saying. Let me finish reading the paragraph. But anyone who's able to, who finds himself able to, uh um or you know, uh disposed to this, you know, prepared for this, uh, to acquire understanding through research, through analysis, in as far as his mind can take him. That's what it means if you found honey, Klomar. Um, sh matzasa, atmachal roy, you find yourself roy, in muchan alaah. And also if you find the right books and the right teachers. Interesting, he says it's not just you, it's your books and your teachers. Uh, eat what is sufficient. What you find from them should be supported by what you've preceded uh them by in your amuna. In other words, I I mean I think I get his point, uh love. Yeah, lo nakre nakre alaha cane. Okay, in other words, like this. Uh well, the portrait I'm getting here is like this is everyone needs to absorb these ideas by way of emuna and it needs to become entrenched in him. Now, beyond that, if you can substantiate those things which are provable, if you can substantiate those through additional training in the Chokhmas Halimudios and Chokmustivios and prove these things, so then you should definitely do that. But you should be cautious and not go beyond your capacity. And it's only if you find it, meaning if you find yourself or your resources, your books and your teachers uh that lend themselves to that. But don't force it, like the first category. You should be careful with your philosophizing uh to the uh to not philosophize to the point where you become uh uh doubtful about some of the received beliefs. Lest you uh encounter um a uh a falsehood um uh or uh or erroneous proofs, the mind will become messed up. To the point where you'll lose out on what you got by way of tradition. That's what it means, lest you become fed up and vomited. You'll throw up even the first honey. Uhroenu the hakeso. Uh contemplate what it means when it says lest you become fed up and uh and vomited. That um vomiting is not necessitated by eating to satiety alone. Uh, but if you eat more than enough, then then you're satisfied. Sorry, vacan yikasvia. But here it is uh uh attributing vomiting to eating to satiety. And in general, satiety is eating the entire cooked dish that is uh apportioned to him on the plate. Okay, uh I don't know what he's saying. He's differentiating between uh vomiting because you ate too much versus you you just satisfied yourself. And here he's saying it is because you satisfied yourself, so that doesn't quite seem to match. So let's see, he says, to leave aside your thought in the words of the entire safer, which is like the equivalent to the eating of the entire dish in the mushal. Ya valide haka, that will bring you to vomiting. This will come and then you'll lose that. You should take the fine flour and throw out the rest. Uh oh minha ha shuman hamufhar vazivashar, like eating the fatty portion from the dish and the best portion and then leaving the rest. That's what it means eat enough, which is what will benefit you alone. Lotis should not go out and fulfill all of your desires. Okay, I I think I got the main point. Um, oh, there's the shleashi, finally. Okay. Um, but uh the main point is that if you're able to, you should, and and uh you know, if you find yourself able to, and you find yourself with the resources, you should try to supplement your Kabbalah with eun and chakra, but be careful to only take the good portions and to not ingest the parts that are gonna mess you up. Um, or that might not just endanger, it's not just that you're gonna like example I always use. You try learning calculus and you fail, so you just don't learn calculus. If you try learning metaphysics or philosophy and you fail, you end up ruining your your good ideas that you had gotten in the proper way. Okay. Third one, last one here. Uh we will finish. Bashlishis, Ramas Al Ha Khachmos Hilochius. The third possible that we just did is alluding to metaphysics. He's warning you not to break through and ascend more than uh than you're supposed to, more than enough. Eating honey in these chokmos, hellochios, is not it's not good to even have uh reboy. He's going back with his original thing, kilayon charuts, it's uh destruction. Kavod mikol klikamja. Uh you you'll entirely be uh swept away from every khlikhamja. Onufarshakilaso Lotova, or saying that eating it is not good, kvodam kavod, nor is their chek vodam kovod. That's a good reading. In other words, eating honey is not good, and chiker kabodam um for kavod, I guess, is not good. I don't quite get it. But Zal Darshu, Achold Bash Harboz Lotov, aindorshin Bamasa Breshis Bishnaim, Kava Biyakid. Uh okay, the Hazal apply it actually to metaphysics, which is don't expound on the Masa Breshis with two people, only one, and then not with Masa Merkava, metaphysics, even with one, uh, but you only do it through illusions. But who Roma is Lamashabi Runuhu, and that's that he's saying is uh in line with the direction he's taken. Okay, so methodologically, okay, I think this is a big miri here, because what he's saying is if you find locally, I would have assumed that if you find similar mashalin throughout Mishle, you should attempt to unify them. So, for example, the Isha Nohriya appears in several places in Mishle. Um uh and so so uh, you know, um uh tying them together is appropriate. Or in Kohelas, you've got the you know, Yelen Miskan Bachham and the Melechaki N Uksil, uh, and you should unify them. Here, though, I could see someone saying, look, there's one possible telling me to eat lots of honey, and he's encouraging it, and it's clearly a good thing. And then another one he's saying, don't eat it, and it sounds so different, maybe it's a different mushroom, but yet the Miri is attempting to unify it, um, and uh and to learn it as one sukhya, you know. Um, so I think that's a good methodological point. And as far as the actual points go for the um the Limud part, um, you know, I think it is uh it is interesting that like, you know, the the I think there is a certain philosophical minded rationalist person who would uh unfortunately look down on the teaching your kid by way of authority, okay. But in reality, you know, he's not just saying that a kid who can't handle philosophy should be taught by way of tradition. No, he's saying you should steep a person in tradition and in you know, in Kabbalah and in a Muna, um, and so that it forms a base. And I don't think that base is just intellectual, although intellectual is a big part of it. I think it needs to be emotional as well. You need to like like vain people need to have strong feelings about the truth that is conveyed to us by way of Kabbalah, you know, by way of tradition, and then also strong feelings against that which is um uh you know false. And that is going to be a pr uh a very, very important foundation and anchor for when you do go into the areas of philosophy, some of which are intellectually tempting, you know, they're appealing ideas, and some of which are emotionally tempting, either because of the ideas themselves or because of what ideology the uh the emotions serve, you know. So I think there does need to be an emotional and intellectual counterbalance against that. Okay, so that was a lot of reading. Uh, but um, and uh I I I didn't want to stop because uh uh we just got through in time. But any last observations here? Because if not, this is actually a very good setup for the Ramam tomorrow, because the Ram does take this uh similar approach. Or any thoughts? Okay, so tomorrow let me know if you're gonna be in Yeshiva and I will be there blinder as well. And if not, then we'll be on Zoom again. Okay, have a good day, everyone. Thanks for coming. Thank you.