Mishlei 25:28 - Are YOU a Breached City Without a Wall? (Part 1)

Mishlei 25:28 - Are YOU a Breached City Without a Wall? (Part 1)

עִיר פְּרוּצָה אֵין חוֹמָה אִישׁ אֲשֶׁר אֵין מַעְצָר לְרוּחוֹ:

Length: 45 minutes
Synopsis: This morning (6/10/26), in our Morning Mishlei shiur, we learned another "straight-up mashal" pasuk - and a pristine one, at that! The idea we developed is so good and so fitting that I'd consider using this as a "starter pasuk" for Mishlei. As a bonus, this pasuk is eminently (and scarily) practical. I can't wait to see what we come up with when we learn the meforshim tomorrow!
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מקורות:
משלי כה:כח
משלי טז:לב; יז:כז
מצודת ציון
תרגום רס"ג
רמב"ם - פירוש המשניות: שמונה פרק, פרק ז
רמב"ם - משנה תורה: ספר המדע, הלכות דעות ב:ג
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The Torah content for this month has been sponsored by Meir Areman, l'zeicher nishmas Zelda bas Ziesel, his grandmother, whose yahrzeit is on the 21st of Sivan.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Me.

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Oh okay, fine. Okay. So uh some bookkeeping. We are on the last puzzlook in 25. And uh I thought that this would be my last week of Mitchell this year because I was gonna be going on a trip with Johnny and my dad next week, but I'm that trip was canceled, so I can give sheer next week. Um I don't know what we'll do it on, but we have another two uh two shirms, so just uh FY unless unless my plans change again. But yeah, okay. Uh I don't want to make uh commitments. All right. So 25, 28.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

It's not a city of a purza.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

No.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

Unwalled.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Yeah, I think unwalled, yeah. I think unwalled well, so it's interesting, right? Peruza literally means stronger than unwalled, I think, right? Yeah, breached, yeah, right? A breached city. And then in Choma.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Which doesn't have a wall.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Yeah, which is weird, right? Yeah, with yeah, say like with without a wall, right? Ish uh share in Matsar Lurucha.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Man where the wind doesn't stop it.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Uh restraint? I don't think wind, yeah. Uh yeah, is a man without restraint. Oh yeah, for his spirit. Yeah. Okay. So um I think we're gonna have other translations in here uh when we look at this. Okay, so we got Matsus Sion who says Prutza is in Shavira. So he says it's broken. Broken city, I don't know if he it's weird. I like a broke, I don't think he literally means a broken city. I assume he means the yeah, or something like that. Yeah, that the that he's trying to say breached, but a specific kind of breach, like that the wall is broken down. Not that I don't know if Tanakh uses it this way, but you could say like they breached our defenses. Like, for example, if someone climbs over a wall that's also breaching the city, but not through Shvira. So I I I'm gonna work on that assumption for now that he's talking about the city is breached because the wall is broken. Matsar's Indian Miniya, uh, so a restraint or withholding, Kumo the Teatar Hamagah. That's interesting. I I always translate it as the Magha was stopped, not withheld.

unknown 2:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Right, the Teatar Magapah is uh I you know, so that's slightly different. Okay. We got our first Mitsuristion commentary on Kumish. Yeah. Uh Luruko is in Dibor. Okay, so this is also this came up in um in my Monday night mesh this year. We had um in 1727, umsech amaravyudea das, uh, one who withholds his another withholding uh reference, withholds his statements, knows knowledge, and then yikar ruach ishtun. So you would translate it as someone who of of precious or spare spirit, but many of the mufarshim said ruach here means divor, uh because you know, you know, like don't waste your breath, like we say in English, right? Is a breath is uh is speech. So for his spirit or speech. Um, and then he says, uh ruh safasav, uh shame shaba bruach. Right, fine. So that's that's why we call it that. Okay. Sadigong. Uh so the kafak translation says ir prutza lalochoma, and like a uh a breached city, I'm gonna say breach city with no wall. So is a person who has no now. We usually translate sikum as like summary, but is there a word that captures summary that is like a conclusion? Like you have summary, for example, like a synopsis, which is really before beforehand, but uh sikum umaskana. Uh there's I'm sure there's a word for it, but I'll just say sikum for now. Um, and conclusion to his thoughts. There's gotta be some word for like bringing your thoughts to closure, yeah. Um maybe closure. Right? Closure. I mean, I know it's not exactly etymologically related, but um, yeah. Um finalization. There we go. Finalization, right? That's like a summative, you know, okay, whatever. We'll get there. Uh shikol mash mal itimoso makablo lalohavchana. So uh mal itim is like to pour in, right? Like halitini namin' adamadamaza. Um, so uh just as um or as as is explained that that the more you pour into him, the more he will receive without any uh discrimination. Um I'll just put that here. Um as is explained, I should presumably in his commentary, um, the more you pour into him, uh the more he receives without uh discrimination. Whether pearls, I know pininim is not pearls, you know, you know, the the latest uh so people do say rubies, but um okay, you could say rubies actually, but uh corals. Yeah, because uh there is a pasiken echa, admu etsem mi pninim, right? Admu from uh red. So we know it's red, so ruby could be one, and uh, but I think people translating as pearls is not like you have to confront that pusigan echa, because that's an open puzzle that identifies the color. So just FYI. Okay, whether pearls, so I'm not gonna say pearls, whether precious corals, okay, slash rubies, or um straw and chap uh uh chaff, right? Yeah, um, yeah, all right, fine. And then uh Amram Korov says ma'atsor is machtzul de osav musupakos. So a person who does not have machtsor, um who does not have machtzor, I assume he means and therefore his opinions are dubious or are filled with doubt, I think. So ma'at uh ma'tsor equals um his his uh opinions or ideas are dubious or like um uh I don't know if ambivalent. I don't know if he uses the word ambivalent. Ambivalent, yeah, something like that. All right, we'll we'll see it in the commentary if need be. Okay, then target. I forgot to translate, but I think our friend uh Ruven Peskin, uh, who sent me a fresh translation this morning, um uh does uh comment on it. So the Art Skirl says, um, like a breached city without a wall, so is a man with no constraint to his spirit. Okay, I think that's similar enough. We could delete it. Refers to like an open, unwalled city. Okay, that's a little redundant, right? Um, and he's not taking it as Pruta breached, is a man who cannot restrain his desire. Okay, fine, that's similar enough. Alter, a breached city without a wall, a man with no restraint to his spirit. Peskin, a breached city, no wall, a man who has no self-control. Self-control is a good one because that's saying um uh emotions, right? That's another another common thing. Ruach, uh, according to being a Yonah, Ruach is almost always emotions. So Peskin's commentary here, or open. Uh, the point is that it's defenseless. No wall, more fully that or which has no role, no wall, self-control, more literally restraint for a spirit. Now, I just want to um give a PSA. Um, there is a thing that uh I've heard you don't know how many students I've ever heard give a Devar Torah in which they are saying the English um word for tehilim, and they they say psalms. Now, I think psalm is a word that people have heard before, but they get confused when they read it somehow, you know. So I was learning with someone, I forgot who it was, and they and we were doing like a thing that had transliterations. They kept on saying like rua. I was like, the H with a dot underneath is ch. So just FYI, H with a dot is ch with a dot is, you know, there are things like that. So just in transliteration conventions, just FYI, you should know so you don't embarrass yourself in public, yeah, or in private, um, before God. All right. Ruah is variously taken here to mean temper, emotions, impulses, passions, desires, appetites, will, thought, or speech. So that's a pretty comprehensive list here. Okay. Then he goes, the subtugent has so is a man who does something without counsel. So where where is he getting that from?

SPEAKER_02 8:06

Uh sorry, they don't have the rich.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

Uh Eitzah, right? So so it might be that the subtugent was going off of a either a variant gears, uh, you know, Nusach or uh or witness, um, and uh and had uh in like eitzah or some other variation of Eitza, that's what I would assume. Um yeah, sorry, he says that. Yeah, itzah for uh zar. All right. The pchitita has, and that's the Syriac Torah, has you know, I was gonna I was predicting that you were gonna come in because it's the end of uh Mishle. I don't know if that is the reason. Okay. Um is a I should have called it. Uh so is a man whose spirit is not patient, renum ruch here as temper. Interesting. The Vulgate, who knows what the Vulgate is? That's Christian translation into what into what language? Uh Latin. Latin, yeah. So this is the this is the Latin translation. So this so Septuagint is Greek, Shitita is the Syriac Torah into Aramaic or Tanakh in Aramaic, and then Vulgate is the uh Latin translation, uh, which apparently I could be wrong about this. I apparently I feel like I've seen this, that the Abravanel sometimes will um, I don't know what he calls it, but we'll sometimes uh quote the Christian translations, which I think he was going off of the Latin. I have to double check and see when the Vulgate was written. Um yeah, uh the Vulgate has so is a man who cannot in speaking restrain his own spirit. Okay, so it it basically like um uh renders explicit spirit as speaking, but preserves spirit also. The Targum has so is a man, uh we didn't read the Targum, Hihkarta Ditria Velo Isla Shura, just like a city that is broken, right? Like Shvira, like Trua, um, that has no shura. Now I translate shura as a line, but maybe a wall, right? Um or also we uh whatever uh Hihna Gavra de lo matz arruche. So how does he translate it? Uh so is a man, so is a man who does not restrain his spirit. Okay, fine. All right. Sadia has so is a man who has no conclusion to his thought. Yeah, conclusion is uh what we said, right? Yeah. Uh that is who is fickle. That's interesting. So that's probably fickle is probably what uh uh Rob Armon Korok was getting at by uh Deus of Musupakos. Yeah, okay. So let me just let's just update our translation to make sure that we reflect everything. Uh here and let's move those as well. I'll just put them here. Okay, so we've got a breached city without a wall is a man without restraint for his spirit, speech, emotions, temper is another one. So that's another thing that Ravino Yon often does. He says ruh means cos specifically. Okay, so for example, the most well-known example of that, and this is one of those ones that I'm uh a little embarrassed that I don't know how to get to it immediately from Mishle. I think it's in 15, but I know how to get to it from Pierre Piavos. Anyone know where I'm going?

SPEAKER_02 11:02

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

Yes, yeah, Milo. Yeah, I think it's in 15, but I gotta go through Benzoma. Yeah, uh yep, 16, 16, 32. Tov erakapai mi gibor mosho baruco, milowir. So better one who's slow to anger than a gibor, and one who rules his anger is how many of them translated conquers his anger than one who captures the city. So ruh can also mean um uh can mean that. Okay, all right. I don't think we need what did Matsusion say uh no, we incorporated that already. Okay, so uh let's just move this as well. Okay, questions. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

If the city is uh breach, so doesn't it not have a wall? And if it doesn't have a yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Okay, so so uh prutza, so what must you say prutza means a prutza? No, um a pruzza and inchoma um are contradictory, right? Uh I don't know if contradictory is the most technical term, but like you know, if it has a uh if it has no wall, it can't be breached. And if it is breached, uh then the there must have been a wall, right? Have been a wall. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

Is that why some of like I noticed a lot of parts who don't say like breach, they say just like open or yeah, probably, probably, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

Yeah, it is funny because I think yeah, I mean I don't I don't know if there is a prime let me let's look at the BDB. I was under the impression that the primary meaning of Prutza means broken, right? Like Dafka breaking. Uh this is not the right parag. Um 25 Oopsi Prudzah, Prutza is break through. Only one. Wow, yeah, from the uh perhaps in Paratsu, uh Arabic, cut, slit, hit, break or butt, burst out, break through down from without, break into, break open, break up, break in pieces, break out violently, use violence, break over, burst open, spread. So it spreads the only one that like a breakout in you know, but no just stom open. Yeah, so I I'm I'm fine saying that like the translators who try to eliminate broken are doing an injustice to the pussock. You know, that that you have to have something with breaking in there, and that's intentional. Like no, you can't like smooth it over.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

It could be like a broken city, like it was broken into.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Yes, right. Correct. Something, yeah, yeah. So yeah, but we have to preserve the breaking, is my point, right?

SPEAKER_04 13:31

Like for no like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

Yeah. Um, yes, Dubid.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

What is the mushall? Because they don't seem to be parallel, because usually you have a wall to protect from to prevent things from outside coming in.

SPEAKER_05 13:47

Uh it sounds like it's things that are too easily.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

So what is the uh what is the relationship between the mushall and the nimshall, especially given the fact that well, I guess if you're North Korea or like uh China, then yeah, yeah, right. Uh that um the normal purpose of a city wall is to keep people out, but in the Nimshall, um the uh seemingly person has uh is uh you know has nothing uh preventing things from I'm sorry, to I'm gonna say it the other way around, to prevent enemies from getting in, uh but uh from from getting to prevent things from getting out. Now that's why, that's perhaps why Sajigone says that it is about letting in things. Yeah, so that's that's uh that's a good advantage uh good advantage to this translation. Yeah, oh sorry, I think always mistaking the ear scratch for a uh question. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

What exactly is Matsar Larucho?

SPEAKER_00 14:59

Yeah, what is Matsar Larucho? What what is or should be um sorry, not our or should be the Matsar Larucho? Yeah, and then uh I'm not gonna ask what is Rucho here because that's a translation question. Yeah, I mean I feel like there are not that many questions, I feel like they're all kind of uh included in these. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:25

Um ish just like the general like a person, or is it no okay, right, right? Yeah, the fact that there's no specific thing.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

Ish just a gen uh term a generic term for person, uh for person, or or is this an archetype? Yeah, I just want to identify in the Montral Nimtral question.

SPEAKER_03 15:49

Um thinking if it's if it's generic, that also means that it's not it isn't moving to a specific archetype.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

Uh right. Um so generic term and not limited to a specific archetype. Yeah, okay, and then um so the what are the ear, I'm sorry, here's in choma. Um yeah. And the uh and um I guess that's fine, right? Yeah, I'm just gonna leave it like this. So as to not take a stand on what corresponds, but yeah, that would uh why does the city not have a wall? Yeah, that my designer okay. Uh is in the mushroom is there a good reason why the city doesn't I guess let's just say why does the city not have a wall? Why does the city not have a wall, right? Is it just not that kind of city? Uh or uh is this a a uh a a you know lapse in their uh strategic thinking or does it not need a wall?

SPEAKER_02 17:18

Yeah, or maybe they had it, but it was a prusa.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Right. Or did they have it but it was prudent? Yeah. You know what? It really uh oh side point. Never mind. I just had a business idea. Yeah, I gotta I gotta find some way over the summer to have Claude automated and then uh yeah, yes. I'll ask you about that later. All right. Um, that's the thing I wanted to ask you about. Oh I've already I've already asked John Deutsch about it. He's probably the most informed about of all of us. Yeah. All right, I feel like this is the main these are the main questions, right? Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 18:06

Um I think um it's it's trying to highlight two different characteristics.

SPEAKER_05 18:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 18:16

In coma is like is completely not protected.

SPEAKER_05 18:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:19

So if you just said in coma, that would make it sound like maybe it was by design or something, but it was highlighting the part of the aspect of that you know it's it's just letting vegan in or um the harms of being sorry, what do you what do you say if if if you if it just said in home, what would you think?

SPEAKER_00 18:39

You it was good.

SPEAKER_04 18:40

Uh yeah, that um maybe it was by design. Oh, that it was by design.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:44

Um the in homo as like a breach, but it's entirely breached. It's not you know, it's not like it's just like a little if it you know, if it just said horse, then it would tell the wall with like a single entry point. But it's the there's completely no protection at all.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

Okay, yeah. And then could we do if it just said prutza, then um then you wouldn't know the scope of the breach. Yeah, the magnitude. Yeah, right. If if it just said prutza, uh you wouldn't know the magnitude of the breach. Okay, that's good that's a good uh solution, right? So functionally we can treat this as one idea, meaning that completely open, yeah, but you know, no no defense whatsoever at all. Yeah, okay, right. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

Uh yes. I have an approach which may, I'm not sure, maybe it's like this understanding, but maybe not. Oh so maybe the ear proof selling coma wheels that it's saying that once you have let's have a city with a wall. Yeah, once there's one breach, yes, effectively like there's that's good also.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

Oh, that's really good. That's a good idea already. But yeah, once you have if you have a city with a wall, uh but one breach, then it's effectively like there is no wall. Is anyone else has anyone else been thinking about the scene in uh two towers with the breaching Helm's Deep? What? Uh no, no, with the blowing up the uh the wall. Oh, you know, yeah, yeah. So like that that's the thing, it's like one guy breaches the wall, and then that is the end of it. It doesn't matter that this is not even a fortress anymore. Like this doesn't even matter, people just stream in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

So stem two, a person who doesn't have any I guess I I think you know a few different ways, but the way I'm thinking about it is that if you don't have restraints for your emotions or for like you have a certain flaw which you like sort of cannot control, yeah. Then basically any any false understandings or ideas or perceptions could flow in at that moment. Uh and then basically you could end up with all these false perceptions because you have this like in a certain situation you get into this crazy state and you can't control yourself.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

Basically, you end up losing your whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

Yeah. And yeah, okay, that's really good. Yeah. And I think, yeah, I think emotions does fit best for this one, uh simply because of the uh we don't have to because we're letting people in. Let it yeah, I think that's yeah, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 21:10

Like a person can have a havamina, they're like a good, whatever person, but they have an anger issue. Yeah, as long as they're not angry, then they're growing up.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

That's that's good, right?

SPEAKER_02 21:18

So realize that facts.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

For example, if a person uh there's a Havamina, this is a good idea. Havamina, that if a person is near perfect, but he occasionally loses his temper, uh, they might view themselves as like 99% uh protected. But but uh you know, Kamash Milan uh effectively um he is defenseless, uh uh defenseless because that temper issue can let uh can let in influences that cause. You know, uh as much wreckage as if he were uh you know were not otherwise perfected. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

Uh yeah, you want to add to just another angle to that is that I think on one hand, when he's angry, he can mess up, but also the fact that he can't control his anger, this example, indicates something more annoying about him, which he might seem like he has control everywhere else.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

Okay, it is possible, but the thing that occurs to me, uh I actually want to read this. Uh hold on. I always forget which translation of Shimon Prakim they have on uh so I'm gonna use the one I'm playing with.

SPEAKER_05 22:44

This is just a good a good one to know.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

I'm sure you've heard it before, but uh feel free to guess where I'm going if you know where I'm going. I actually don't remember which park it's in. I think it's in the seventh.

SPEAKER_05 23:10

No. It is in the earlier one.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

Um the imperfections of Naveen. About how Nubby does not need perfect um perfect uh meetows. And he goes, he has a list of like the um you know what? Okay, I am gonna look on on all Torah. Okay, this is slightly annoying. I always forget, I think you have to no, yeah, yeah, I think you just go here. Yeah, okay. Uh let me just check who the translator is. Uh oh, Shaylat. I don't think that was always the case. All right, so I look up Iliahu. Yeah, okay, here we go. So he says, see which chapter this is in. Seven. I was right. Okay. Um I was wrong by listing all those other possibilities. That was the first thing I said. I think. So it's not one of the conditions of a Navi that he has all ethical virtues. Uh Shari Shlomo, Navi, Kara Sakatsu. That's a mock locus, by the way, whether Shlomo's Navi. I forgot that he says this outright here. Uh, because it says Bigivon Nira Arashem Bakule, that Hashem appeared him in Givon. Matsanolo Baferushus Midos, we find explicit uh uh deficiencies. Yeah, it's funny, funny he says that by the way, because like that's not my understanding of the mirroring many women. Uh, if anyone had a taiva mishap, it's really David, right, with bhacheva, right? Like, you don't you don't find, you know, I mean, you could, you can, I mean, whatever, you can argue, you can argue that shloma was like that, but anyway, this is a whole sugi, I guess. So he says that comes from taiva. That's very interesting. Bomar mevaer halo alchata shloma. Okay, David Al Vashala, Navi, Ammar Li Dvar Turi Yasraal, Mutanuhu Bal Akzarius. Why is it Akz Akzarius? I mean, I know we say in English aggression. Uh to me, Achzarius is a different quality. I don't know how you would say aggression. Was that cruelty? Yeah, cruelty, right? Um, the Afal Pisha Hish Tamishbo Bagoyim Uvharigas Kofrim, even though he utilized it uh against the other nations and killing uh Koifrim, Vahya Rahman Liz Rang, he was merciful to the to Israel of Albir Had uh uh Bidirhayamim Shashem Lomatu Rua Roy Libin Bas Mikdash, Librov Mashaharag. Hashem, it's it says in the Dibir Yamim, the Hashem did not find him worthy to build the base mikdash due to the uh multitude that he killed. You spilled lots of blood. Matang L Iliahu is a part of the to Midas Akas, which is really bad, right? You find Midas Akas. We were talking about this at ends, right? About the um Ileahu, Yonah, and uh Yumiyahu, yeah, right. So this is his problem. Um, I was supposed to send that article to someone, I forgot who asked for it. The Alpha Pishi Shtamashbah Klapia Kovrim, even though he utilizes anger towards the Kofrrim, um Valim Haya Kois, um, and he was angry at them. We see that Hashem uh distanced him and said, Lo yitzlach libni adam, me sh loch uh kanui uh uh kanoi kishir shies loch shoyumitem. Um that he will not be successful to people. Someone who is uh I think Kanoi here is like zealous, who has the zealotry to in this amount will not be successful to people, Shuyumitem, that he'll kill them, I guess. That's an interesting one. Shmuel was afraid of Shawul. I always again I am not learned in Saber Shuol. I always thought that that stemmed from love or like you know, like some form of like affection, not uh fear. Vyakov Nizyira mi pikichasav, Yaquov was afraid of meaning, these are the the uh uh barriers of the Navim, Alema Shalom, and someone has two or three uh uh not middle path meetos, Kumushibyano, Kerakarvi, nemarbo ro SM. So you can still see SM. So my my point is not to invalidate what you were saying, but I just want to say that there that it's not necessarily that if you have one imperfection, then that indicates that the others are not perfect. Yeah, yeah. But uh but it it is definitely possible, and the person Michel is talking to, I'll mention it anyway, is that um it's also possible, uh, but not necessary, that this one deficiency uh indicates that perhaps his other walls are not as secure as he imagined. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

Is this a problem even for the big the like the birth of Joseph there? Because it seems like the arm I'm saying if you have one in the question, then you have one in the patch, but you can still let's be up to them.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

Yeah, but I that's why I maybe I misunderstood your initial point. I thought that like if you lose your temper once, it can cause a huge amount of destruction. Like, let's say, again, not to diagnose it, but if you say that Mosher Bainus Kate was anger, that undid his entire ability to go into Israel and then that that whole future. Right, right. Um, you know, so that that I think that still stands. Right, right. Yeah. Um, yeah, Isaac. Um this is a great idea, by the way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:33

So first off, uh I think I've object to the way you wrote the second sentence, the first part of it.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Uh in the parentheses? No. No, second sentence. Oh, in the in the thing? Oh, yeah. Uh for example, there's a Havmina that if a person is near perfectly. No, that's the Oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_04 28:45

Oh, so to a person who doesn't have any restraint for his emotions, then any something doesn't have something doesn't have any restraint for emotions.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

Oh, yeah, yeah, right. Right. Um for a a a particular particular emotion, right? Or or in an instance. So to a person who is who is lacking even a restraint for even a single emotion, even in a single instance.

SPEAKER_06 29:14

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

I think that's the in the mushroom, that's the thing. Like you let one enemy in, that's the whole thing, you know. Uh, then any foreign uh can potentially rush in and undo him. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:27

I think the the talking about uh the hollow me the little there's um um that you can kind of like write it off.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

Yeah, yeah, you can't write it off, right?

SPEAKER_04 29:39

Yeah, I'd say it's not like but I think the mistake is it's not slipping up in a single instance. Yeah. I mean, although I think I can adjust that.

SPEAKER_05 29:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:51

Um but really the um the justification that I don't need to work on this. Like it's like it's fine. Like, yeah, it'd be better if I wasn't doing if I wasn't an angry person or yeah, angry.

SPEAKER_05 30:06

Right.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Right.

SPEAKER_04 30:07

But but really overall, I'm totally good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

Happens to be happens on flaw, but like yeah, you know, I actually do want to make an argument here for um uh for specifically for anger. Uh not that you have states for anger, but I just do want to read uh the rum bum, yeah, in Deus 2. Um, by the way, another example of this, I'm not gonna spell it out for lack of spoilers, but you know, you all know that my favorite novel is East of Eden. And there's a good example with Kate uh that recurs several times uh that that illustrates this point. Um okay, so um Rambam in Deus, was this two three? Yeah, two three. Uh so you're talking about things you should uh distance yourself from to the ultimate extent and not just go to the middle path. Anger is a very bad day, very, very much. What was it?

SPEAKER_02 30:59

What's that Lama? Ad lima od.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

I think that's just a phrase. Yeah, I think that's just gotta be one that that was used in certain things. Um uh royal adam she is rachis mimina adaker, and a person should go to the opposite extreme. He should train himself to not get angry, even on something that's royal to get angry about if he wants to instill fear in his uh children and the members of his household, all altibu immaiaparnas, or on the community if he's a leader, and he wants to um get angry at them in order to return them to the good. He should make himself appear angry at them in order to discipline them. Um but internally his his his uh psyche should be settled. Like a person who's acting the part of an angry man, uh part of uh man who is angry who ain't but he's not angry. Amru Khakim Roshon Kolokois, kilo ovate a vodasara. Uh the Kham say anyone who's angry, it's as if he worships a vodasara, which who has a working shot of that? I I think it's not difficult, but looks I'm just curious if your working shot is different than mine. Is that because he's frustrated with reality?

SPEAKER_04 32:13

Uh it has to do that feels like reality to me, what he wants, and then the and then worse, yeah. So that's really in one thing that he's dealing with like like what I what I want dictates reality. Yeah, I think it has that, right? Yeah, respects that reality. Right.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

So in other words, yeah, yeah. So anger happens when reality is not in line with your emotions. A Khafam will recognize that, oh, it's I'm the one who has to adjust to reality and be in line with that, but he expects reality to adjust to him, but then it's worse because he actually engages in reality based on his emotional distortion and his expectation, which is what the Obadvotasara does. It's not just that the Obadivot Zahra wishes that it would rain on his field in a way that makes him happy, it's that he actually engages in actions on the premise that it will do that. So, like it's it's a distortion of reality. That's the point that I wasn't uh hearing fully flesh out there. Okay, and then and then here so that point is relevant to what we're saying, but then also the Amru Shakulakois Im Chakamhu, Chachmasum is talakas me, menu. Uh, anyone who gets angry if he is a chakam, his chachma departs from him. I never got why he has to say this extra. You think that's a kappa com er? He's a navy, his nibua leaves. Obviously, because Navua is a function of chachma. So um Ubal Haas Inchayam Khay. I'm just gonna finish reading because we're here. Uh, people who are uh angry, their lives are not lives. Figa tivu la har his rach minakas achyanhi atmoshloyargi shafilu the div the divine khamachism. Therefore, they commanded us to distance ourselves from anger and to accustom ourselves to the point where we don't uh feel even things that are provocative, that make anger, uh provoke anger. That's the good path. But Zerchatzadi came the way of tsudikim, alluving olvim. They the way of tsadikim is that they get insulted, but then they don't insult back. Show me chapasim in a mashiving they hear their shame or their in the insults and they don't uh respond. This is what the Raman quotes at the end of his explanation on Eov. And he acts out of love and rejoices in Yisurin. Uh regarding them, it says, like uh those who love him are like the sun emerging in its might. Yeah, so I I think again, this is true for any emotion, but those like this. If you have uh an issue with, let's say, spending money, like you you you know, you you spend more than your your means, right? So it's true that that could lead you to make a bad decision, but there is a certain uh um cap on where that decision is gonna affect, namely your money, you know, and your possessions. For example, having you know the the the inability to to be frugal is not gonna affect uh the way you relate to the sexual, right? I mean, I like not directly, right? Or or let's say it's not gonna affect the way you learn. It it there is a certain inherent, you know, cap. Uh, or let's say another media is let's say you can't control your eating. So fine. So you'll you'll have problems when it comes to eating, might extend into other areas of pleasure, but it's not gonna affect your learning unless we're talking about honey. But uh, you know, but or it's not gonna affect your business decisions. But anger and another what's the other thing that is used uh the specific media, the ruach? Gaiva, right? Is Gova Ruach. So anything that attaches that could affect any area. So I think you can make the argument here. I'm just gonna add this here, is that um uh the strongest argument is that this is talking uh Davka about um Ruach as anger uh or ego. Uh, because unlike other bad meetos, um which have a uh a I guess a not a limit, not a cap, a a certain like um what I'm looking for, not a danger zone also a limited area that that can be impacted. Um anger and ego can affect zone, no, it can affect uh any area of your life uh to any degree, right? That's nothing also like let's say you have a spending issue, okay? Well, I guess in a world of credit, then you could spend more than you have, but like like, or let's say with eating, right? There's a certain point where you will throw up, right? Uh, you know, if you're eating, you know, but like with anger and cause, it's like unbound. It's totally completely in coma, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:54

Well, I was thinking um, I was thinking something differently. Yeah. I guess maybe the question is what what would you want the Homa against?

SPEAKER_05 37:03

Right.

SPEAKER_04 37:04

So it sounds like yours. Um there was the way that I was thinking about it was the technically like I say malicious actors, not just like you know, bad look like um generic bad look bad consequences. Right. But actually like someone manipulating you. That's that's how I was thinking it.

SPEAKER_00 37:29

In the mushroom itself. Yeah, yeah. Uh-huh. Right. Okay, so that that's another that is another point here. Is that um is that you know the the mushle. Uh let me try this out and you tell me if I'm understanding you. The mushroom of of Inchoma Um uh does mean that anyone can enter, but we don't really care about um about anyone entering, uh only people who will do harm, right? Um so in this case, um the concern is people who can manipulate you based on your uh on your breach, right?

SPEAKER_04 38:10

And so and then I would say that um this is true for you know, definitely like anger and ego would be you know the the easiest. But even unless it's something like, you know, let's be very stingy with your money. Um if someone's trying to like get you to like not do something, they all they have to do is like like imply that there's gonna be like financial consequences to you, and then some then like you know, like playing like a federal thing.

SPEAKER_00 38:39

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, right, right. Yeah. Um so this can be potentially any emotion. Yeah, uh, for example, uh stinginess um can be uh can be awakened, uh uh awakened and uh manipulated uh just like anger.

SPEAKER_04 38:57

Because I'd say this has to do with really what what the the the middle data is. Middle data is where you're um where you're really making a decision and not what your emotions dictate what you're gonna do.

SPEAKER_05 39:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:12

Whereas um if you're a smart slip stream, then you then uh your emotions are just gonna become what are gonna be making the decisions for it.

SPEAKER_05 39:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:24

If someone can just push the right buttons to make you feel a certain emotion, then um they can just they can kind of control what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

Right, yeah. According to this though, it is enemies are the worst, but even influences, yeah. Right, it could be it could be a thing. Yeah, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 39:38

Yeah, you're just open to whatever the influences are telling you.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

Yeah, correct.

SPEAKER_04 39:42

Yeah, it doesn't have to have to be someone doing intentionally doing it maliciously. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 39:48

Right. Yeah, David.

SPEAKER_04 39:49

I think oh sorry. Oh, sorry. Yeah, sorry, just saying yeah um I think you see that a lot with social media that is yeah, it's designed to do exactly this.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

Right. That's a good example.

SPEAKER_04 40:02

Find where you have where you're where you have the the Pruzza and then um and we break apart and then um you know it's half right there.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

Um yeah, stop it.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

Uh two questions and then just questions. But um one I think Isaac did address this, but uh quantitatively, how much is this at the very least for the second half? How much of the uh lack of restraint are we talking about with this spirit?

SPEAKER_00 40:33

Um there's like yeah, so I mean, I would say that potentially it is it is any amount, but it is proportional. In other words, like like there is a big difference between a guy who it takes a who's a uh Kasha Lychos and a guy who is noach lychos, right? But um the there in other words, qualitatively it's the same quality that if you're very, very hard to anger, but you reach your breaking point, then you're gonna be just as exposed as this guy, but functionally, like you're gonna be better off if you're if you're hard to anger.

SPEAKER_02 41:07

Yeah, lucky and nothing, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 41:09

Yeah, right, right, yeah. Size of the breach, yeah, size of the breach, yeah, and also the thickness of the wall. Yeah, yeah. Does that answer your question?

SPEAKER_01 41:16

Uh yeah. Um, second, I guess it's actually not necessarily quite an observation that I thought was interesting. That it sounds like within Mazaru, sounds like there's a natural force of this is going, like trying to break out, and you have to hold back. I don't have a question for me.

SPEAKER_00 41:31

Uh yeah, Mozart does also seem like that to me, like it uh it stops someone. But yeah, I'm not that might just be the word. I'm not sure. Yeah, I think you had an idea.

SPEAKER_01 41:41

Yeah. Um, so I think one aspect also, if you know that there's a breach, a lot of the harm isn't even like what the the invader does, as much as the fact that the invader is there. Um, like you can then if you know that someone broke into your house, broke into town, then every noise that you hear in your house that is just going to like be there and frighten you. Um so I wasn't sure exactly how to get to the second app, but I'm thinking that then um if you know there are certain areas like an area that you have shortcomings in, I think this relates what Ezra was saying, then it becomes hard to trust your intuition to trust how I feel in any given area because I know that something is something is there that doesn't belong there. Um I don't know how that is what what that thing that is infiltrating is.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

Yeah, you don't know the the harm that the infiltrator might perpetuate. Yeah, I hear that. Yeah, that is a good idea. Um, I I think it's a secondary concern. Like in other words, I think that at the end of the day, the people have a breach wall, like it may it is true factually that they're psychologically insecure, but the real problem is is the invaders, what they're gonna do. So I think as a shot that Ezra's is is a is a better one, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:56

Um I can squeeze in another challenge. Yeah, sure. Um it's so it's we have two extra minutes. Yeah the uh the kind of it's it was my earlier explanation about the contradiction, yeah. So uh whereas that there's no wall at all. Yeah. Um I think it says for your ideas. Um that if you if you don't have a wall between let's say what's in your head and what's outside, yeah, then any invadering can just waltz in and take over your yeah uh waltz, right?

SPEAKER_00 43:34

Yeah, not foxtrot and take over your your mind. Yeah, that's good. Um now I'm I am curious. Uh what I don't know if you saw in the in the sheer blurb, what did you think I was gonna say for it might get political?

SPEAKER_02 43:50

I don't see that.

SPEAKER_00 43:51

Okay. What? Yeah, so that's where I said that's what I said also is I was thinking a person who has no modal is Trump, right? Whether any shot of Rucho, whether it is speech, whether it is anger, whether it's personality, there's just in matzorla ruho. And that's why, like, you know, I think Sam Harris's take on Jews who like Trump because he is pro-Israel. Um, Sam Harris is always marveling over, you know, all Iran had to do was just buy a bunch of golf courses or hotels or Trump coin. And they would have, you know, the same way as Qatar bribed him with a with a plane. Like, like it's just, you know, you just hit him the wrong way, or you say something to anchor him, or to get, you know, like it's just so easily manipulable. And also in terms of the aim loss of the record for speech, I think that goes without saying in terms of the argument that like that can lead to things, you know. No, so so then during this year, uh, I was thinking about, oh yeah, he, you know, he he he did close up the southern border. Yeah, and that was or I mean, I don't know how it is, but he did better than the alternative. Um, and so then I was like, oh, that's like that's a good example of uh, and I was thinking about this Davco when when David was talking, is like it's not that all the people you led in the border are bad guys. In fact, most of them probably aren't, but it's the potential, it's the breach, and like there's there's no there's no knowing what uh telling what could happen. So I guess there's two humans in politics here. Yeah. Okay, very good. So tomorrow, Blenetta, we will look at the other Mephagin. Okay. Okay, then yep.